Property TV | Property Question Time – S1 Ep70 Garrett O’Hanlon, Paul Mahoney and Neil Cobbold

Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to property question time. I’m Briony Bilson and this is the show where you get the chance to have your questions answered by our resident property experts. So let’s see who we have in the hot seat today. A warm welcome to Garrett O’Hanlon, director of MAP chartered surveyors. We also have Paul Mahoney from Nova Financial Limited and last but by no means least Neil Cobald, CIO of Pay Prop Limited. Thank you for joining us today, gentlemen. We’ve got lots of questions to get through today and I want to hear from some of your golden nuggets so we’ll get straight to it.

So our first question to you, Garrett. We’re buying a small holding, which seems to have two separate entries with the land registry. One part includes the house plus outbuilding garage and hay barn. The other is an orchard and agricultural land. It sounds like a nice place. The mortgage company was arranging a home buyer’s report including valuation, but so I got a call today saying homebuyers isn’t suitable because of the outbuildings and land. The mortgage underwriters are calling me on Monday to discuss. Now, is it likely we’ll have to do two separate surveys. And do you have any rough idea on cost for something like this?

GarrettO’Hanlon: I can’t give you any idea on cost because I don’t really know enough about the building of where it is or the price or anything else, but in term, I wouldn’t have thought you’d need two separate surveys. I think you need a survey which is appropriate for that type of setup. And I think it’s a pity sometimes that the surveyors aren’t involved in the process a little bit earlier because somebody is arranging the mortgage and they’ve said, “Yes, you can have a home buyer’s report.” Without, by the sounds of it, really knowing if the property is suitable for that at all and the person to decide that is essentially the surveyor.

So there is always an option. It may be that if they are primarily concerned about the main house, let’s say that you could have a home buyers just on that, depending on his age and configuration and so on and so forth. There are always lots of variations. If you have and I’ve had some, recently, properties with 20, 30 acres of land, you need to decide how much attention you’re going to pay to the boundaries because walking those takes a few hours. Yes there is an option. I don’t think it’s two surveys. I think it’s an appropriate survey and I think the surveyors should be involved early on in the process.

Speaker 1: Thank you. We’re going to go to you now, Paul, for a question and Aveo has said, I’ve heard about section 24 and tried to do some research and it all seems so complicated. Can you please explain what it is and how it may affect me as a landlord? Okay.

Paul Mahoney: Okay. It was more of a tax question. It’s worth seeking personal tax advice on this, but just to make it very simple so far as how this could affect that person. Essentially section 24 refers to the treatment of buy-to-let mortgage interest from a tax perspective. So previous to this change, buy-to-let mortgage interest was considered an expense as part of your buy-to-let ownership and therefore was completely tax deductible along with all the other expenses against the income that you’re generating from that buy-to-let. The change essentially restricts that for some people. It means that well, the way it’s written in means that buy-to-let mortgage interest by the, by 2020 will no longer be tax deductible at all. But, and it’s a big but, you do receive a tax credit at 20%, which is the basic rate of tax just by coincidence. I don’t know.

What that means is that if your employment income plus your property income less your expenses but not less, your mortgage interest is less than 45,000 pounds, then that change doesn’t actually affect you at all. If those two things are more than the current threshold of 45,000 pounds, and therefore you’re a high rate taxpayer, then it will affect you. And essentially the way that it affects you is it means that your mortgage interest rather than being deductible at your own marginal tax rate of 40 or 45%, it will be deductible at 20%. Effectively. That’s not the way it’s worded, but that is the easiest way of understanding it. And that would mean that those with properties in their own names and with mortgages on them, will pay more tax, that there are people that fall into those thresholds. There’s a range of ways of dealing with this or have a kind of mitigating the change.

One of the ways is splitting income between married couples to reduce yourself under those thresholds. A lot of people are now investing through limited companies or hybrid type structures, which can in some ways allow people to move current properties into more tax efficient environments. Once you’re getting into that territory, it does become quite complex and also can be quite costly. Very high level, that’s what section 24 is.

We could talk all day about the reasons for it because no one knows aside from perhaps George Osborne. I’m not sure he knows. But the whole idea is to professionalize, it seems to be to professionalize the buy-to-let market. Move toward people who actually know what they’re doing rather than people that are buying properties here and there on an ad hoc basis. That’s what it is. There’s a range of ways of dealing with it or at the very least understanding it. Definitely getting advice as very, very important. And I’d say especially so for, if you’re looking to invest further in property, that’s where it becomes more and more important, whereas it can be a little bit more difficult to deal with it on your current portfolio. So very high level. That’s how it works.

Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you for that. Would you have anywhere that you’d recommend to do any further, where could someone goes for further research if they want to say more about section 24?

Paul Mahoney: Well, there’s an abundance of information out there about it. The difficulty with doing your own research is there’s so much conflicting information. HMRC doesn’t write anything in black and white. So you can’t say this is right and this is wrong. The only way you ever know if this is right or this is wrong is when you get in trouble for it. So seeking professional advice on it, I suppose professional advice that you can actually rely upon. You rely upon an advisor’s professional indemnity insurance. That’s the only way that you can really get that sort of level of confidence that you’re doing the right thing for you. So that’s, at the very least worth it, I’d say.

Speaker 1: Thank you. I see you nodding there, Neil.

Neil Cobald: Yeah. As he was going through, that was the, the last point that he mentioned was the big thing to get across that there is so lack of understanding on the section 24 at the moment and it’s, a lot of it is going to come to interpretation and then it’s going to be the challenge of that interpretation. And so the best thing that landlord or anybody looking in to do is go and get it under somebody else’s insurance. Don’t have you making that judgment from your own understanding of something that people who’ve worked within the property sector and within finance for 20, 30 years of struggling to get their head around. We’re not expecting landlords.

Ultimately, they’re trying to change the relationship that you can’t have two consumers in the process. So treat one as a business and if you are a business, you would go and get an accountant to deal with your finances. You’ve got to do the same now as a landlord. Go and get somebody who does give you that advice and that if there is a problem later down the line or somebody challenges it, you’ve got somebody to fall back on that it wasn’t your own decision to take that.

Speaker 1: Thank you. Really practical, positive advice that people can move forward with. So thank you for that. So Neil, my next question goes to you and one of our viewers has said, “I’ve only ever moved once into an empty house with no chain. So it was easy. We exchanged and I could move my stuff in whenever suited me. When we put our house on the market, does everyone in the chain normally move at the same time? For example, on the same day.” And he said, “I can’t see how else it would work. If everyone in the chain exchanges, monies on the same day, then surely everyone must move on the same day and at the same time so party A would move into house B and the same, house B is then being moved onto house C and so on until the end of the chain. All on the same day. It seems manic and unnecessarily stressful. There must be something I’m missing here.”

Neil Cobald: Unfortunately they are not missing anything. It is that stressful.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Neil Cobald: They were very lucky in the first time to have moved without a chain. Unfortunately, it’s not everybody. The person at the end of the chain, they have to be out by the agreed move date for the rest of the chain, but there’s nothing to stop them moving out sooner because they’re not bound by the chain. And it’s the same for the person at the start. They can move out, but they are not dictated. They can move out after the move date when everybody else has gone because they’re not dictated. But everybody in the middle, typically the exchange happens. And as when they, they’ll then start now and when the completion is and that’s when they’ll book the move date for everybody. There’s no real set legislation as to what you do at that.

It’s kind of a rule of thumb and speak to your agents. They’ll get he organized, but typically it’s that you move out of the property by midday and then depending when the exchange actually happens in the notification from the legals come through, typically you gain access at 1:00 PM I have known people moving in while the other person is still moving their properties out and vice a versa. Trying to still move your stuff out and the person has already arrived in the morning trying to move in because they’ve only booked to removal for that day. It is manic. It’s unfortunately one of the byproducts of the chain. There’s no way of getting around it. It’s just good planning. Keeping that communication open from the chain and using your agent from the moment you exchange and you get that date, booking it. If you get a van yourself, get it the day before, get yourself most booked in, do whatever you can to take the stress out of it because the day will seem like a stressful day on a chain move in.

Speaker 1: Thank you. Do either of you have any experience that’s either personal experience or from …

GarrettO’Hanlon: I think you need a contingency plan is the key thing.

Speaker 1: Good. Good tip.

GarrettO’Hanlon: Because I think the thing to remember about moving, it’s the biggest transaction you’ll ever do in your life probably. And it’s the most amateur in shambolic transaction you’ll ever do in your life as well because nobody in it is professional. There are no professional movers per se. Everybody’s doing their own thing and classically, it’s just been alluded to Neil there. If somebody is moving, they’ve hired a van and they’re going to move themselves and they can take forever to move out and you’re wanting to shift your stuff. And so again, there are no hard and fast rules and it really goes perfectly to plan. So I think have a contingency is the most important thing without question. So you don’t end up sleeping in their removal van that night.

Speaker 1: So ideally, kind of line up a family member or friends that you could go to if necessary.

GarrettO’Hanlon: Something like that. You might lose those friends at the end of the week. But you’ll have them for the day.

Speaker 1: Good tip.

Neil Cobald: The other thing is, although it doesn’t typically happen once the exchange has gone through, until the completion, it’s not actually your property. So if there is any hiccup on that final day or there’s a problem with a bank transferring funds or the bank system goes down, one of the things that are outside of your control, it could end up where if the money’s not received, then the property is not yours, but you’ve moved out and you now have nowhere to move into because your completion didn’t happen. So yeah, Garrett’s absolutely right. Have a contingency lined up for any of those occurances.

Speaker 1: I like how you pointed out as well, this is your probably, your, one of your biggest transactions you’ve ever going to do. Even if it all goes to plan, of course it’s going to feel a bit stressful or a bit frantic or manic. So I think I, she first of all just acknowledge that this is quite a big deal. And then secondly, get ships in order. Know what you’re doing and then have a backup plan as well. So great tips there. Thank you. I will keep those in mind next time. Okay. So Gary, I’m going to come to you next for a question and it is in response to surveys. “I have had a survey done for a property I’m buying. Issues identified include minor roofing repairs such as pointing. Potential blocked or broken drain at the front of the house, drainage issues, dampness in the kitchen and so on. Now they said as it’s my first time by, I really need some help. Is it essential I get a second opinion on the drainage and dump issues and who pays for the drainage inspection?

GarrettO’Hanlon: Okay. It’s kind of, well, it’s essential that you get some prices together because you don’t know really what you’re faced with until you’ve had some prices.

Speaker 1: Okay.

GarrettO’Hanlon: You need together several prices because people will quote you a different price depending on whether they’re busy at that time of year or whether they’re not and how much of the problem they can determine. Because with dampness and associated timber defects, for example, you can’t always see exactly the full extent of the problem without lots more exposure. So there could potentially be some element of open ended commitment. You need to keep that dialogue with your surveyor who should be able to guide you as far as possible. A drainage test would be an absolute necessity if somebody is highlighted potential issues because nobody can see what’s under the ground without that test. CCTV is typically what they would use nowadays for that.

Dampness, again, be cautious and have a chat with your surveyor because some companies will quote you just injecting a damp roof course, which looks very cheap, but unless you replaster the damp areas as well, all of that damp will come back again and your guarantee won’t be worth anything. You guarantees need to be insurance backed to make sure they’re valid in the event the company just stops trading, so there’s lots and lots of issues there. You do need to get the prices. You do need to get the dialogue with just surveys as well.

Speaker 1: Thank you. Any other experience of that? Sorry, it’s a bit of a surveyer’s, sorry, question.

Neil Cobald: The big thing is that it’s becoming more and more, though, damp. Damp is something that comes up. It’s probably every second or third question that we hear from either a tenant, a landlord, a buyer or a seller, is that something that’s come through with damp and typically people doing a cheap fix in the first instance that doesn’t get rid of the problem and it going forward.

Speaker 1: Should people be concerned about damp then? I agree, It does seem, this seems to come up a lot for people. Is it as a big a deal is everyone makes out?

GarrettO’Hanlon: It can be a massive, massive deal.

Speaker 1: Okay.

GarrettO’Hanlon: In terms of the consequential issues as well. If you’ve got damp and you’ve got timber floors, you’ve got an adequate ventilation, you’ve got a risk of fungal decay, which could include dry rot, dry rot can spread right the way through her house, up to the roof from the ground. In extreme cases it’s massively expensive to eradicate. The other thing to bear in mind is whatever reports you’re having done, make sure they’re done by people who reporting and quoting to you and not to a third party. Classically the agent might say, I’ll get you those reports and there were lots of very, very good estate agents about, but they are at the end of the day acting for the other party, not yourself and if the quotes were for them and not you, then your come back is much more restricted in the future if there were problems.

Neil Cobald: Also bear in mind that that’s when buying a property as well. If you are a landlord and you’ve got dumping it going forward, that actually, the spores are a health and safety risk. So you actually have a obligation to get rid of that risk for whatever reason from. Have not a lot of people act enough that they think just getting investigated is dealing with the issue and actually curing the problem.

Speaker 1: Thank you.

Neil Cobald: It’s a bigger thing now.

GarrettO’Hanlon: Increasingly, the over above damp is asbestos nowadays as well.

Speaker 1: Okay.

GarrettO’Hanlon: It’s a massive issue. Especially if you’re a buy to let landlord.

Speaker 1: Coming up after the break we’ll be having some further golden nuggets from our property experts and asking a few more if your tricky questions. So we’ll see you soon.

Welcome back to property question time with me, Briony Bilson and on my expert panel today we have Garrett O’Hanlon, Paul Mahoney, and Neil Cobald. So Paul, we’re going to come straight to you with a golden nugget, please.

Paul Mahoney: Okay. My golden nugget is with regards to treating buy-to-let property investment as an investment. So making sure that you have a very clear strategy in knowing what you want to achieve and how you’re going to achieve it. And far too many people go about it in a very ad hoc way. They see on a property on Zoopla, they like and they buy it and hope for the best. Property is one of the biggest purchases you’ll ever make. We’re talking hundreds of thousands of pounds. So to do that in my mind seems a bit strange. So given that generally you’re investing probably to achieve something at the end of the day, making sure that you very clearly understand how you are going to go about achieving that. So being unemotional, being commercially minded, making sure that you’re investing in the best possible thing for you to achieve that end goal as opposed to any other reasons. Because what you like doesn’t matter. That might seem really weird, but what you like doesn’t matter because you’re not the target market.

What the target market likes matters more than anything because that’s what determines whether your property gets rented and whether it gets sold at the end of the day. So making sure that your, I suppose approaching it very much from a business perspective … rather than thinking of it as I’ve lived in a property for 20 years and therefore I get property. Because investing is very, very different to buying a home. So treating it that way, having that sort of commercial mindset. And that will generally, if you are using those sort of investment fundamentals as opposed to just buying on an ad hoc basis, generally that should determine, that should allow you to achieve a better outcome.

Speaker 1: Thank you. And you talked about about having a strategy, having a plan. I mean, where someone even start if perhaps this is something that’s new to them? How would they start about setting out a strategy to do that?

Paul Mahoney: Well, of course they could do it themselves, through their own research and building their own knowledge. But there is a lot of conflicting information out there and it can be difficult to do that on your own. And perhaps through sort of trial and error that can be an expensive process. So you can certainly seek advice. There is a range of advisors out there in a range of different areas that you, that you really need when it comes to investing in property. I’d say that should be your starting point. Educating yourself, working with advisors that, that you can trust and basing that upon whether that be referrals, testimonials, that they’re, standing in the market so far as other people that have had success with them. And then kind of going from there.

Speaker 1: Thank you. Some expert advice there for our viewers. Right, on to our next questions and I’m going to come to you Neil and it is regarding solar panels. So, “We had solar panels fitted in 2012 from Home Sun under the free rent a roof scheme. They are now administered by an ESCO, we believe. We wanted to sell our house in the next couple of years and realize just how difficult it will be. Has anyone had similar problems? The cost of buying them out seems excessive now the feed in tariff is so low. I would love to just remove them but don’t need the legal implications. I’m even wondering about hiring a solicitor to inquire about getting out of the contract. Any advice at all please on this and then he finished by saying, please don’t judge. At the time I thought this was a great green scheme and I now regret it bitterly. So any experience or advice?

Neil Cobald: I’ve had people come across this. Unfortunately the free rent a roof scheme, the key thing there is free. Nothing is free. They have not charged them upfront and what they’ve backend it is into the contract and unfortunately it’s an element, a second mortgage that they’ve taken out on the property. So what they’re now going to find is that when they’re buying out of that, they’re now seeing why it was free and they didn’t have to put the money up in the front. They have to get rid of that asset. I don’t see that he’s got an option to just take down the solar panels and void the contract. I would imagine they’ve got that quite clearly covered but he’s right to take legal advice. You never know where the contract and what the clauses are. I’ve not got it in front of me to make an opinion, but typically if he is now going to move then he would have to settle.

There is an element of whether you could sell this on to a buyer. The buyer is still going to get some beneficial interests from them. They are going to get the new feed in tariff rate. They are going to end up with free electricity, but that’s more going to be an enticement than a buyer willing to actually put a value on to that because it’s not going to be something that’s going to add to the value of the property. So when it comes to the survey, it’s not going to be something that that we’re going to be mortgageable to put on. Thereby, your mortgage company is not going to put that when you’re looking at your investment and your cost and what you’re able to get in financing. It is something that if you are staying in and at your own property in a long period of time, it can work out very beneficial. Unfortunately five years on looking to move. It could be quite a costly move that he’s going through, but definitely take legal advice and see how the contract stacks up.

Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you for your response on that one. I think it’s very, it’s quite particular, actually, isn’t it? ‘Cause maybe it doesn’t apply to all solar panel roof schemes.

Neil Cobald: If you bought it outright then there’s no feeding and actually the costs are quite low now that a lot of people do buy them outright. It was the idea that you didn’t have to pay out anything. You could save yourself thousands. A lot of people took it on these longterm view. I mean, I don’t know. Is it included as a value?I’ve never actually questioned it.

GarrettO’Hanlon: Not specifically. And if there are lease arrangements then the lenders don’t like it. But my broad view about technology generally and solar panels is part of that is that it doesn’t usually pay you too well to be an early adopter of technology. And I think solar panels that were put in place many years ago, much less efficient than the ones which are around now. So that’d be an early adopter is my broad view of that.

Speaker 1: Okay. Thank you for that. Well, Garrett, I’m going to come to you next for a question and they say, “Can anyone tell me what this is? I’ve just got this down from the solicitor relating to the property we’re buying. It says it’s the home buyers search report and that they aren’t valuers so they can’t comment on the report. Does this mean the bank has done our valuation already?” And then they say, “We paid for level two yesterday or is this just something the solicitor does?”

GarrettO’Hanlon: There’s a certain pub landlord who says confused, I was never confused, but I’m very confused by that question. I’m not quite sure what they’re talking about. I think maybe, they’re talking about an environmental search, I’m not sure. Certainly that, again, doesn’t interact in any way with the valuation. I think you said who’s not capable of carrying out evaluation wouldn’t be a value that’s employed in any way by the lender at all. And then you mentioned about having a scheme to report, which is essentially a home buyers, which is done directly through the lender. So I suspect they’re confusing two completely different elements there. So I would just try and get some clarity on that. And I think the first one is the environmental search I’m guessing.

Speaker 1: I think it can be very confusing for people in the property market if it’s something they haven’t dealt with before. But so do you have any advice on how someone could perhaps find more clarity on understanding exactly what they’re talking about here because the question seems …

GarrettO’Hanlon: Very much so. I think, come back to a point I’ve made many times, if you want to know about the surveys you’ve got to talk to a surveyor. And unfortunately that often doesn’t happen because people will get their advice from the estate agent who sometimes very good, well meaning but don’t necessarily know surveys inside out. They’ll get it sometimes from the solicitor as well or they’ll get it from somebody at the mortgage company who’s arranging the mortgage for them, who again, will know something about surveys but not really enough. We can now look at things generally online and see exactly what the property is and whether it’s suited for a particular type of inspection or sometimes we can even see things that tell us straight away you don’t want to do that because of X, Y and Z.

And surveyors don’t challenge for these initial consultations. It’s a phone call. Most surveyors are more than happy to have a chat with you. So get that clarity there. And in terms of things like environmental search reports, which are very broad ranging, but I think solicitors like to pop them out to people, maybe have a little chat with your solicitor about that. And yes, I might have something to say about it later as well.

Speaker 1: Thank you. So don’t be frightened to pick up the phone, call your surveyor and ask the questions that you need to ask.

Neil Cobald: Yeah. Typically, within the property market, people use the phrase and that’s what I think they find confusing. The homebuyer’s survey is an actual item. But actually, people will send out things as a home buyer’s report. But as solicitors just written or an estate agent’s compiled some information on the property, he’s actually not linked one to the other. It’s just the phrase being used as a home buyer is who they are within the process. But it can be very confusing if you’ve been told to do a home buyers survey and you receive something that says it’s a home buyers, even if it’s an environmental search, it’s hard to differentiate what the two are. But if they went to the surveyor, he would quite clearly tell them that that’s not the survey and what that is. They would provide that advice.

GarrettO’Hanlon: Don’t leave it until too late in the process. We get people who say, can you do a survey tomorrow cause I’m exchanging the day after. Well, the survey, it is sometimes almost a starting point because we’ve mentioned in other conversations about you might find defective drainage or rising damp or asbestos or all kinds of things that we might say you need to investigate that further before you can make a decision. And the surveyor in that sense is a bit like going to your GP and saying, “I’ve got pain. What do I do?” Well we need to do a bit more testing and exploration first and then we can determine. So make sure you get that sorted out early in the process.

Speaker 1: Sounds like a real priority.

Neil Cobald: A bit like going to the doctor in saying, “I’ve got pain. Have a look at it. I’m under the knife tomorrow.”

GarrettO’Hanlon: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 1: Thank you. Okay, Paul, our next question goes to you. “Someone told me it’s difficult to get a buy-to-let mortgage. Is this true and if so, can you please explain?”

Paul Mahoney: Difficult to get a [inaudible 00:26:21] Perhaps they’re referring to the fact that it’s becoming, it has, in a way, become more difficult. Not for everyone, but there has been some changes recently which means there’s more to consider.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Paul Mahoney: In January of this year, the Prudential Regulatory Authority, which essentially is the body that overlooks lenders, mandated that all buy-to-let lenders, they need to use a benchmark rate of five and a half percent and that that benchmark rate needed to be covered 125% of the time. That’s somewhat confusing, but the reason for the 125% is that covers things like vacancy rates, expenses, et cetera, et cetera. And then the rent needs to cover a five and a half percent interest rate on the mortgage amount. Hopefully that makes sense. Even though the lender might be lending it two or 3%, so it’s really a stress test.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Paul Mahoney: It indicates that the PRA and, and the Bank of England, which, you know, they’re kind of tied in together. Thinks that perhaps within mortgage terms you’re 20, 25 years rates could go to five and a half percent and they want to make sure that if they do, then people are still in a position to service, service those mortgages.

Now of course rates would have to rise quite significantly to get there because we’re currently at a base rate of 0.5% for 75% mortgages at the moment that the better rates are sort of two to 3%. So there’s a margin there of one and a half to kind of … one and a half to two or 3%. It would need to change significantly to get there is the point. Fulfilling that is only really a problem if you have a low yield property and you’re trying to get a higher loan to value. So you know, if you have a property in London where your yields are probably only about three to 4%, if you’re lucky, you can probably only borrow about 50 to 60% loan to value. One way around that is to take a five year fixed mortgage because if you go for a five year fixed mortgage, you can act, the lenders can actually lend at the lending rate.

So if it’s 3% rather than using five and a half, they’ll use three. So that’s one little trick of getting around it. But of course therefore you’re locking yourself in for five years. You can’t sell or remortgage for five years without incurring early repayment costs. A further change, again, they might be referring to is the change most recently in September of this year with regards to portfolio landlords, where lenders are looking at the landlords’ overall portfolio rather than just the property they’re lending on. Now, none of this means that buy to let borrowing is more difficult. So long as you have the right properties or the right strategy. And who it is most effecting is, as I say, high value, low yielding properties with mortgages. That’s the people that are going to feel the pinch with these changes. If you’re getting a higher yield, regardless of the value of the property, really, if you’re getting a very high yield, these changes aren’t really a worry at all.

So I suppose it is accentuating the importance of yield. And those that in the past have mainly invested for growth and have had properties that are kind of just breaking even, only just looking after themselves, might find themselves in a position where that’s not the case anymore. And may need to change tact a little bit, either balance their portfolio with high yielding properties, or maybe get rid of some of their lower yielding properties. So perhaps that’s what they’re referring to there so far as some of the changes and some of the ways in which it’s not necessarily becoming more difficult, but there is more to consider.

Speaker 1: Thank you.

GarrettO’Hanlon: It’s all governments. I think trying to stutter and overheated market really isn’t it? We don’t like to see things racing away ’cause it just continues to push first time buyers at the market. We’re talking obviously about buy-to-let as a proposition, but that also impacts on regular first time buyers. I think there’s a bit of protectionism there from the government as well.

Speaker 1: Thank you. Well I feel like we could discuss this all afternoon gentlemen, but I’m afraid we have run out of time today. Thank you so much for sharing all your insights, expertise, and knowledge with us and our viewers today. And if you’ve got a question that you want to ask our prophecy experts, you can email us info at Property Television dot TV. You can download our app or why not go to our website, Property TV, Property dash TV dot co dot uk and send in your questions for our brand new panel. Until then, we’ll see you next time.

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