Property TV - Property Question Time - S1 Ep 202 - Andy Wood, Simon Zutshi and Paul Mahoney - Nova

Property TV – Property Question Time – S1 Ep 202 – Andy Wood, Simon Zutshi and Paul Mahoney

Stephen Galpin: Hello, and welcome to Property Question Time. This is the program where you can have your property related questions answered by our team of property experts. I’m Stephen Galpin, and with me today are Andy Wood, Director of etc TAX. Welcome.

Andy Wood: Hi there.

Stephen Galpin: Simon Zutshi, author and founder of Property Investors Network.

Simon Zutshi: Hello.

Stephen Galpin: Hello to you, and Paul Mahoney, founder and CEO of Nova Financial Group.

Paul Mahoney: Stephen.

Stephen Galpin: Welcome. Andy, going to go to you first for the first question, and it’s this. I have a fairly substantial life insurance policy, but want to ensure the payout goes to my children, not into my estate. Is it right that I can nominate it to go into a trust, and therefore have it separated from the rest of my estate?

Andy Wood: Yeah, in short. Yes is the answer. Most life insurance contracts, bonds will come with a very short form a trust deed, which allow you to do that quite simply. Such that when they do pay out the proceeds outside of the estate, so it should be something that either a financial advisor, or an accountant could deal with quite simply.

Stephen Galpin: Okay, would it be something you talk over directly with the insurance company at any time?

Andy Wood: Well as in most of these, as far as I recall, most of these will come with a quite short form trustees, which, literally like an application form you’re filling in details and that essentially constitutes the trust.

Stephen Galpin: And the insurance company is capable of administering that for you?

Andy Wood: Yes.

Stephen Galpin: All right.

Andy Wood: It’s a very simple arrangement. Yeah.

Paul Mahoney: Just one thing be careful thereof. Some mortgage brokers that aren’t necessarily qualified to give independent insurance advice, but can give non-advised insurance advice. Meaning that essentially is it tied to one insurer. So they’ll say, here’s an insurance product, do you want it or not type of thing, rather than advising on it. Some of those products don’t allow that. So just be aware if your mortgage broker offers you a product and you want that to happen then just check that that’s an option and you can do that.

Stephen Galpin: Would the mortgage broker be getting a fee from that insurance?

Paul Mahoney: Yeah, they would.

Stephen Galpin: The same way as they would on a mortgage?

Paul Mahoney: Yeah. There’s a difference between advising and non-advice effectively, where they can’t say this is the right product for you, but they can say, “Given you’ve taken a mortgage, you might want to think about this.” And then it’s effectively your decision to take it or not. I know in some cases that’s not offered as an option when that’s the case. So just be careful.

Stephen Galpin: Okay. Good advice. Simon?

Simon Zutshi: I just say that it’s absolutely critical to make sure it goes into a trust because I see a lot of property investors that are building portfolios. They think they’re being very smart by getting insurance in place to effectively clear the deck when they die, but if that happens, that would be them paying their 40 percent tax over their personal allowance. So it’s really important to make sure it is in a separate legal entity, and their beneficiary’s can then borrow that money to clear the deck on the properties which they would need to do when they die, but they’re not going to get hit by that 40 percent tax.

Stephen Galpin: Okay.

Simon Zutshi: So same old-

Stephen Galpin: Same old theme, isn’t it? Talk to the experts.

Simon Zutshi: Absolutely. Yeah.

Stephen Galpin: Get good advice.

Simon Zutshi: Yeah.

Stephen Galpin: Okay. Simon, moving on to you. All right, this is a long one. I’m looking to get a mortgage to buy my dream home, although it does need some renovation work, which will stretch my finances. I’ve got a few options, but I’m not sure of the best approach. I’d really appreciate any advice. The property is 630,000 and my estate agent estimates it needs about 100,000 spending on it. I do have 340,000 pounds in equity in my current property, so should I take the 100K of equity in my current house to put towards 140K deposit, and borrow 490K, or will lenders accept the value of the property will increase to a minimum of 830,000 following the work as being completed, so therefore will then lend me the full 340,000K deposit, borrow 390K and benefit from the better LTV? Wow.

Simon Zutshi: I think I need to write that down to get my head around those figures, to get a picture [crosstalk 00:04:47]

Stephen Galpin: Yes.

Simon Zutshi: So, a couple of thoughts on that first of all. So he’s already got a property, and he’s buying a second property as a dream home, okay? And I think what he’s saying is he can get it for 630, spend 100K on it, and increase the value to 830. So that sounds, in principle, like a good project, and using an existing property to release equity. Now, if it’s his own home, they’ll need to see how much loan to value he’s going up to, and also they’ll need to see if he’s got enough income to be able to support that, but, in theory he could release some equity from his own home to go and buy other properties.

Simon Zutshi: Now if this second property is one he wants to eventually live in, so he’s not renting it out, I think he’s going to find he’s going to have to have a pretty good income to be able to get a residential mortgage on two properties. It’s much easier if one of them was an investment, and it’s based on the rental income on that property. But if it’s a residential property, a second home, dream home, which is what he’s saying, that might be an issue.

Simon Zutshi: Now you also think, if he’s going to have the dream home he’s going to move into, what’s he going to do with the other one. And it’s possible to maybe change the finance on that from a residential mortgage into what is called a let to buy mortgage, where he then rents that one out, and it releases some equity to be able to go and buy the next one.

Simon Zutshi: So, as we always say, best to get some really good independent financial advice, but in principle what he’s saying is possible. Just be aware because it’s not an investment property, he’s going to have to have a pretty good income to be able to do that, I believe.

Stephen Galpin: I’m just a bit concerned about the last few words when it says we’ll have benefit from the better loan to value. I think, Paul, you’d go on gearing wouldn’t you, rather than…

Paul Mahoney: Yeah, I suppose. I think there was part of the question where they asked would the lender accept the new expected value? They wouldn’t. So they won’t speculate on the new value.

Simon Zutshi: So what he’d have to do, he’d have to buy it, spend the money on it, and then he could potentially refinance.

Stephen Galpin: Revalue it, yeah.

Simon Zutshi: Or you just leave it as it is if he has lots of equity there, which would be a, you know…

Stephen Galpin: Are there any tax issues moving from one property to renovating and building up the value on the next one? I mean, I presume you’ll…

Andy Wood: If there is significant capital improvements on the new dream home that he’s going to live in, then in theory you would be able to deduct those from the capital gains tax computation, but if it’s his dream home and he’s going to live there, he’s going to get main residence relief from capital gains tax anyway, so it’s probably somewhat irrelevant. I would have thought.

Stephen Galpin: But of course he’ll lose any benefit if he sells the first one won’t he?

Andy Wood: So for the period-

Stephen Galpin: If he paid tax on it.

Andy Wood: For the period he actually occupied that property as his main residence he will always get main residence relief. But you can also, rather confusingly, get relief for periods of deemed occupation as well. And probably the most well known of those is what used to be the final three years of ownership always qualified for main residence relief. It’s now 18 months. So the last 18 months you qualify for main residence relief, if it’s ever been your main residence, so it allows you to move out and still qualify for a bit of extra relief. I believe, I think it’s only mute at the moment, I think they’re going to move it to nine months. So that period of grace has lost its favor.

Stephen Galpin: Right. On the position, when you sell your own home and your profits on that are free of any tax, first of all, do you think that’s something that’s going to stay with us, or do you think those days are coming to and end? And the second part of that is, I wonder, what numeric calculation do revenue’s say no, you’re moving too much. You’re effectively got a trading business here?

Andy Wood: Yeah. So a couple of interesting questions there. The first one about if you keep, essentially, you’re moving house every three or four months and selling the old house, really it isn’t about the time that you occupy a house. It’s not the quantity it’s the quality of the occupation, so essentially as a matter of fact, are you living in there as your main residence? And as you expect, there’s an awful lot of case law on that, which I won’t bore you with.

Andy Wood: The first question about whether… Looking into the crystal ball, whether there will be a main residence relief or principal prime residence relief, or whatever you want to call it, is interesting. I think it’s probably one of the sacred cows of the UK tax system.

Stephen Galpin: Until we get an aggressive chance, I suppose.

Andy Wood: Well, yeah.

Simon Zutshi: I wouldn’t be surprised at anything at the moment actually, given the track record the last few years.

Andy Wood: You’ve got to remember, though, and again… I’m digressing somewhat, so I apologize. There’s a big difference between income tax rates and capital gains tax rates. A lot of people suggest there should be an equalization. And when I mean equalization I mean bringing the capital gains tax rates up. That, for me, isn’t fair, because actually as the system exists at the moment for capital gains tax, there is no allowance for indexation and inflation anymore. So, actually, you can pay tax on, really, something which isn’t an economic gain itself. It’s just inflationary. And for me, that really is the reason why the rates are much lower. The same would apply to a main residence. If you’ve had a main residence in, anywhere for the last 10 or 15 years, a lot of that depreciation is going to be inflation. Clearly there’s been significant property growth as well, but-

Simon Zutshi: I think if they did tax out as well they would probably kill the property market, because if someones says, “Well, for me to go and move to another house, I’d have to pay all this tax.” That would be a real debilitating market.

Stephen Galpin: In and out cost today are quite prohibitive in some cases.

Paul Mahoney: Also, the landlords are a much softer target than homeowners.

Andy Wood: Yeah.

Paul Mahoney: Homeowners are a big bonus.

Simon Zutshi: That’s where you’re quite losing isn’t it?

Stephen Galpin: Okay. All right. Thank you gents. On that note, Paul, we’ll go to you. I live in London and was thinking about buying a buy to let near home, but I’ve read London is on the decline and the Midlands and the Northwest is now a good place to buy. I’m a bit confused. Is it better to be close?

Paul Mahoney: Okay. I think some people might disagree with me on this, but I don’t think investing should be anything to do with where you live. I think it should be commercially minded, unemotional, and I read a stat recent that said that nine out of 10 people buy within five miles of their own home. And that makes sense on the surface of it, but if you think about the mind set of where you buy, when you’re buying a place to live, it’s very emotional, you know? It’s close to work, it’s close to your kids school, it’s where you like. That’s got nothing to do with making money.

Paul Mahoney: Whereas making money should be the complete opposite of that. So you might get lucky, and buying a new home might be a good place to invest, but that’s probably just luck.

Paul Mahoney: And back to this persons question. London’s a tough market for buy to let at the moment for a number of reasons. The tax changes, the finance changes, all those things effect high value low yield properties the most, and make it quite difficult to make money from. And even to even finance and to make it viable in the first place.

Paul Mahoney: Whereas the other places he’s mentioned like the Midlands and the Northwest, where property prices are much lower and yields are much higher, and actually now they’re growing at a faster rate than London and Southeast as well, I agree. Those markets are much stronger. So they make more sense, both from a finance perspective, and effectively a growth perspective now as well for making money from investing in property.

Stephen Galpin: Okay. And what about management of the asset?

Paul Mahoney: It’s really just about surrounding yourself with the right team. Especially if you’re investing in major cities. Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, in those areas there are great property managers there. It can make your properties very passive. It’s also about the properties you invest in as well. You don’t really want to invest in a Victorian house if it’s miles away from home, because it’s going to take maintenance, and it’s probably going to cost you a lot of money. But if you’re investing in a new or near new property, it’s probably likely to be far less maintenance and far more passive.

Paul Mahoney: Some developments you can even invest in developments that have on-site management, and that’s completely passive because there is somebody there most or if not all the time. So consider the fact that there… Think about the fact that you’re never going to want to go there, and how does that work. But it definitely can work.

Stephen Galpin: Okay. Great. That’s all we’ve got time for in this half of the show. So join us again shortly after the break.

Speaker 5: The tax system has evolved significantly over recent years, but property investors and developers, you may think that you and your accountant have a grip on these changes. However, unless you’re receiving specialist tax advice from a specialist tax advisory firm, then it’s unlikely to be the case. At etc TAX our team of highly experienced chartered tax advisors work with private individuals and companies to deliver effective tax planning whilst meeting HMRC compliance requirements. Let us help you to meet your personal or commercial objectives in the most tax efficient manner. etc TAX making the complex simple.

Simon Zutshi: Hello, my name is Simon Zutshi. I’m the author of Property Magic which you can buy on Amazon for $12.99 or indeed get on Audible if you prefer listening to books.

Simon Zutshi: Now I started investing in property in 1995 and I became financially independent by the age of 32, but I made a huge number of mistakes, because I learned the hard way. You don’t have to do that. I’ve explained in this book that you can make a huge amount of money investing in property when you know how to do it. And one of the secrets is working with motivated sellers. People for whom the speed and search it for sale is more important than the amount of money they get. And we look to find people who’ve got a problem and come up with an ethical win win solution.

Simon Zutshi: I explain exactly how you do it in here. It’s a best seller. You can buy it online, as I said, however, you can get a complimentary copy. All you have to do is phone the number below or go to the website. I ask you just to pay for the postage, tell us where you want to send it in the UK, and we’ll send it completely free of charge to you. Call us right now and we’ll send the book to you straight away. Learn how to invest with knowledge, invest with skill.

Speaker 5: Property is a great investment option, but it’s one of the largest purchases that you’ll ever make. As individuals, we’re all limited by our resources and regardless of our experience, knowledge or time we can achieve much more with the help of a qualified team and extra resources being available. Nova Financial specialize in assisting clients to achieve financial freedom through property investment. With over a hundred years of experience we shape your families future. To invest in property with absolute confidence call us on 0203 8000 600, or visit nova.financial.

Stephen Galpin: Welcome back to property questions. I’m Stephen Galpin and with me today are Andy Wood, Simon Zutshi, and Paul Mahoney. Welcome back guys.

Stephen Galpin: Andy, your question. I’ve heard of something called capital allowances which I think is the ability to offset all expenditure on rented property. This relates to fixtures and fittings and this is to be set against tax. Even if it’s expenditure it’s from the previous years. Is that right or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

Andy Wood: Well first and foremost with any business, and property’s the same, you need to make a distinction between what is capital and what is revenue expenditure. And from the property point of view, if you’re going to repaint, clean the carpets, those kinds of things. Maybe sand some floorboards. They’re going to be revenue expenses, and they can just be deducted from your profits for the… say it’s an expense against your profit.

Andy Wood: Capital is something different. And it’s really where you are improving the fabric of the building or you are doing something which has an enduring benefit for the business. So in terms of property it might be putting an extension on the back, a new boiler, or a new roof, or something like that. And in those scenarios you cannot, in the property business, usually get a revenue deduction for those. They’re taking into account when you’re looking at the capital gains tax position for the property, assuming it’s an investment rather than a trading venture.

Andy Wood: I think the question really, it sounds to me, more about buying furniture or something like that for the property where you, again, up until quite recently you had something like a wear and tear allowance, which was a bit of a flat, so you could choose it in wear and tear or a renewals’ basis. The wear and tear was a percentage of the rents coming in. Alternately you could just opt to simply claim the cost of replacing, say, the furniture against your profits for the year. You had to choose one and stick with one.

Andy Wood: The wear and tear allowance has fallen away now so essentially you’re looking at renewals’ basis for the most property investors now.

Stephen Galpin: Okay.

Simon Zutshi: I love capital allowances. I’ve done a number of commercials, residential conversions, and you can claim those. Holiday homes, you can claim them as well. Service accommodation. Now you can only claim it once on the lifetime of the property, so your solicitor needs to check if it’s been claimed already, but most people haven’t claimed it because it’s not a very well known tax. And if you’re buying the property in your own name, which people generally don’t do now. I bought them and made them in the past. You can just take that and offset it directly against your income tax. So, again, get good advice, but I think it would be really powerful.

Andy Wood: Yeah, I think if its commercial property, absolutely. I was coming at it from a residential property. Commercial property, yes, you buy an office and pretty much anything which has been put in there, carpet, towels, the roof squares, and all kinds of systems you basically[crosstalk 00:19:31]

Simon Zutshi: Air conditioning, all sorts of stuff.

Stephen Galpin: Just out of interest. If, for instance, you buy a new apartment, you probably… I ask this because the question asks about fixtures and fittings. So often you buy a lease hold flat, and of course those fixtures and fittings are actually part of the free holders property, are they not?

Andy Wood: [crosstalk 00:19:52]

Paul Mahoney: Not so far as I understand. Anything within the shell is yours.

Andy Wood: Is yours for the time of lease.

Simon Zutshi: It goes back at the end of the lease.

Stephen Galpin: Yeah. Well that’s the point. And I wonder if you’ve been claiming relief on the way through.

Simon Zutshi: If someone’s bought it and developed it and it went into lease or flats a smart owner probably would have claimed the capital allowance in that conversion process I would have thought.

Stephen Galpin: Yeah. I think that’s the question really. I was wondering whether you’re in danger here of claiming twice on the-

Simon Zutshi: It can only be claimed once.

Stephen Galpin: Yeah.

Andy Wood: And Simon’s right about what he mentioned about the furnished holiday lets as well. So, furnished holiday let is where you have a holiday home and you let it on a commercial basis. And that becomes… It moves from what is ostensibly an investment play into a… It’s treated as a trade, really, for tax purposes, so a lot of those really attractive reliefs you can get, entrepreneurs relief, potentially, business property, although it’s a very tricky area, and as Simon says, capital allowances.

Stephen Galpin: Okay. Great sir. Okay. Simon. Having sold our house, [inaudible 00:20:55] is now retiring, we are now nicely debt free and are looking to start investing in the equity from the sale of 100,000 pounds. A seriously poor credit history has made it difficult though, and even opening a decent bank account is tough. Do you know anything different to this? Is there any route we can take to make life easier? Does rocking out with a fairly big deposit make a difference to the lender?

Simon Zutshi: So most lenders, if you got an adverse credit record, are not going to want to lend to you because ultimately they want to make sure they get their money back. However, there are some lenders that will lend at quite expensive rates, but the important thing, also, to remember is you can repair a credit rating. It takes a bit of time, but by opening a bank account, getting a credit card that you pay off every month, you can build and enhance your credit rating to the point where someone’s prepared to lend to you.

Simon Zutshi: There are other ways of doing it as well. If they’ve got 100,000 pounds they can find people who know what they’re doing in property and have got great deals but have run out of their own cash. They could do a joint venture where they come together and they maybe put the money in and the property could be in someone else’s name. Obviously you need to get to know people very very well before you do joint ventures, and you have to have everything in writing and documented, and do things properly, obviously, but there are some creative things you can absolutely do.

Simon Zutshi: There are also some strategies where you don’t actually own the property. Such as purchasing options, rent to rent, where you can make cash flow from property. And I guess it depends on their retirement. What are they looking to do? Are they looking to get extra income coming in? Are they looking to get capital growth? In which case they would need to own the property, so it’s really important when someone says, “I want to get into property.” Well, what exactly are looking to achieve, because that might affect the strategy you utilize.

Stephen Galpin: I suppose the exit is pretty important too.

Simon Zutshi: Absolutely, absolutely, but of a time and age, getting mortgages is not a problem because it’s based on the rental income. So, if they could repair their mortgage over time, and they could invest in property is the answer.

Stephen Galpin: Interestingly enough I did a question the other day and one of the mortgage broker related parties that were giving advice were saying that now 80 year olds can get buy to let mortgages simply because [crosstalk 00:23:03]

Simon Zutshi: Absolutely.

Paul Mahoney: Up to 100, yeah.

Simon Zutshi: Because they’re not the person who’s paying it technically, because a normal residential mortgage, they want you to have paid off by the time you’re 65 or 70, because they say, “How are you going to afford to pay the mortgage?” And with an investment property, well, you’re not paying the mortgage. The theory is that the tenants pay the mortgage as long as you buy the right property in the right area and do your research. So therefore the age doesn’t really matter so much.

Stephen Galpin: Yeah. And we were talking earlier about, sort of, percentage mortgages going up, I suppose, effectively. Have the deposit conditions weakened or lessened on buy to let properties now, Paul?

Paul Mahoney: Not particularly, no. I suppose for that reason. It’s more the service ability that they look at. That they’ve strengthened that in that lenders now respectively do your stress testing for you. They have to, which is a good thing. There’s a benchmark rate that they need to stress test the rent to make sure you can afford a much higher rate. So that’s good actually. It means that rather than having to do it yourself the lenders are doing it for you.

Paul Mahoney: The loan to values haven’t changed too much. There are lenders that will go to higher loan to values but the rates increase. The same way Simon mentioned for this person with adverse credit, there are lenders that will lend to them, but the rates will be higher. So maybe that’s an option for them at first and then they can perhaps bring it down when they repair their credit.

Stephen Galpin: Okay. And typically what would the percentage be for buy to let today?

Paul Mahoney: For an average person or for this person?

Stephen Galpin: For an average person. For an average opportunity.

Paul Mahoney: 75 percent loan to value is around about two percent, two and a half percent at the moment. You can get slightly better if you’re more experienced and you have properties, or slightly higher if you’re a first time buyer, or if it’s a slightly strange property or something like that.

Stephen Galpin: And what would be the most optimistic proposition? 80, 85 percent?

Paul Mahoney: For buy to let, 75 percent is what I call the average maximum, because that’s what most lenders will go to and still be at the rates.

Stephen Galpin: And for premium? What could you take that to?

Paul Mahoney: You could take it up to 85 and the rates would be about four, four and a half percent.

Stephen Galpin: Okay, as opposed to two, two and a half percent?

Paul Mahoney: Two, two and a half.

Stephen Galpin: Okay. Great. Right. Paul, we’re going to move on to your question now. Free hold versus lease hold. I read about dodgy lease agreements and that scared me a bit so should I just go for free hold property? Well I think the answer there is don’t buy in London whatever you do.

Paul Mahoney: Yeah. Another pretty common question. I think with all the recent media around here, certain builders offering those dodgy leases, that scared a few people, but that’s definitely the vast minority of the market. It’s not the norm. And obviously most apartments or flats are lease hold, and according to a number of reports apartments have out performed houses over the past decade, both from a yield undergrowth perspective. I’d say the main reason for that is their location and also the shift in generations.

Paul Mahoney: You know, a lot of, we call it space for place. The old cliché of having the quarter acre block and the garden and the picket fence isn’t the dream anymore. Young professionals like myself are more than happy with their centrally located two bedroom apartment for much longer than they were before. So a lot of people, that’s resulting in the re-population of city centers. We spoke of Manchester earlier. I think it’s an interesting stat. 20 years ago there was only 1,000 people living in central Manchester, now there’s 30,000. So that shows the change there.

Paul Mahoney: People, especially young professionals want bars, restaurants, cafes, jobs on their doorstep. So I would say that’s probably what’s driving that shift in the market. So to rule that type of property out as an investment option, I think, is a mistake, but you obviously need to understand the lease, and what’s the length of it, for a start. That’s an important one. But if we get worried about leases running out, but as long as they’re there longer than 150 years, they’re going to outlive you, and as long as they’re longer than 80 years, they’re not really going to cause you any problem unless they get below that.

Stephen Galpin: Well I think one of the important things, again, here is, that there is so much legislation now that are protecting people in these situations, that yes, these dodgy leases, dodgy landlords have come to light. But it’s the fact of the legislation that they have come to light. And it’s being solved, and I don’t think anybody should be really put off by lease holds, and in fact a good lease hold with a good free holder with a good managing agent can run your block very very well and enhance the value of your property. Anything to add on that Andy?

Andy Wood: No, not really.

Stephen Galpin: Okay. Simon?

Simon Zutshi: No.

Stephen Galpin: Okay. Well, there we are. That’s all we have time for today, so thank you very much to Andy Wood, Simon Zutshi, and Paul Mahoney.

Speaker 6: If you have any questions you’d like to send to the experts at Property Question Time you can submit them via our website, on social media, or email us on info@propertytelevision.co.uk.

Speaker 5: The tax system has evolved significantly over recent years, but property investors and developers, you may think that you and your accountant have a grip on these changes. However, unless you’re receiving specialist tax advice from a specialist tax advisory firm, then it’s unlikely to be the case. At etc TAX our team of highly experienced chartered tax advisors work with private individuals and companies to deliver effective tax planning whilst meeting HMRC compliance requirements. Let us help you to meet your personal or commercial objectives in the most tax efficient manner. etc TAX making the complex simple.

Speaker 5: Property is a great investment option, but it’s one of the largest purchases that you’ll ever make. As individuals, we’re all limited by our resources and regardless of our experience, knowledge or time we can achieve much more with the help of a qualified team and extra resources being available. Nova Financial specialize in assisting clients to achieve financial freedom through property investment. With over a hundred years of experience we shape your families future. To invest in property with absolute confidence call us on 0203 8000 600, or visit nova.financial.

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